Comments on: Day 10,936

Comment on Day 10,936 by: reverend gisher

Sun, 11 Dec 2005 07:45:10 +0000

how about playing kenny g non-stop?

Comment on Day 10,936 by: daveawayfromhome

Fri, 09 Dec 2005 19:11:07 +0000

"In the end, I am not one who is smart enough to say whether torture is right or wrong, cause I’m still not sure what it is" What a cop out. Ask a ten-year old, and even they can tell you what torture is. "When people say things are a lot more complicated than that, they means they're geting worried they wnt like the truth (Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum) "A highly placed operative within a terrorist organization can save numerous lives. He/she would have access to many cells of people and information" Yes, absolutely correct. But that's not torture, that's called spying, and it's what the CIA is supposed to be doing. Torture is a lazy man's way of buying information with human lives, but it doesnt work because people who are being tortured will tell you anything, true or not, to make you stop.

Comment on Day 10,936 by: The Monk

Thu, 08 Dec 2005 21:32:14 +0000

So I figured I’d write a post about this in my blog, but I’m going to try out my idea here first.
It is a wonderful ideal to say that we believe torture is wrong, but as I am an analytical bastard, let me ask what is torture? Is it not allowing the detainee to not have a shower for 3 days? I know college students who torture themselves. Is the stripping of a man’s dignity a proper method of gaining information? Where is the line? What limiits questioning from torture? If we determine that torture is done while a helpless person is subject to cruel punishment in the attempts to gain infromation, then isn’t a person being held for the crime of murder subject to torture if he is questioned every 30 minutes without allowing him sleep? I only say this to muddy the waters really. I see from a previous post that the information that saves lives is some sort of non reality. I would probably beg to differ. A highly placed operative within a terrorist organization can save numerous lives. He/she would have access to many cells of people and information. To remove the support network as well as those directly responsible for attacks is a necessary part of any war.
When it comes to the United State’s credibility, we have none because we are a bully. Not because of a single president. We have a bad reputation from any number of presidents from both sides of the aisle. Ask someone in Somalia that was part of General Aideed’s clan what they thought of the United States…not going to be favorable. Ask an Israeli what they thought of Reagan, then ask a palestinian. If we are to make a country based on what others of the world see of us, well we might as well pack it in.
Oh, and in terms of “throwing himself ono the grenade” well, if he did torture a suspect, by US law, we cannot prosecute because any information gained in that would not be admissible in court, it is not a case of one man taking the fall, it is the case of one man ruining it for everyone else.
In the end, I am not one who is smart enough to say whether torture is right or wrong, cause I’m still not sure what it is. Frankly, I’d say that our schools today are a form of torture, of the Lord of the Flies ilk. Many corporate meetings are a form of torture. Heck, I’d say that we’re probably tortured by those that put these stories on blogs…just kidding SF, this one is actually a good one.

Insightful thoughts, Monk. Thanks for the post. –SF

Comment on Day 10,936 by: reverend gisher

Thu, 08 Dec 2005 21:22:56 +0000

nice damn post. i say all of them need to back up to that fork in the road, and try the other prongs.

Comment on Day 10,936 by: daveawayfromhome

Wed, 07 Dec 2005 20:56:15 +0000

Torture simply cannot be used by anybody who (rightly) makes as big of a stink about human rights around the world as the U.S. does. It’s simple credibility. Now, BushCo has made us into big, fat liars, and it will take either a generation or a war crimes trial (of guess who) put on by us to regain any semblence of honesty again.

Plus it’s just wrong (listen to John McCain on Fresh Air).

As for the Administration’s scary “getting the information that saves lives” scenario, that’s the stuff of television, not reality. But just for arguements sake, let’s say that scenario rears it’s ugly head. Yes, someone can torture the suspect and save the day. Then, we prosecute. Yes, he’s still a hero, but he threw himself on a grenade to do it, because TORTURE IS IMMORAL. Finally, immoral acts in the heat of battle, and immoral acts in the “leisure” space of a dungeon are hardly on the same level.

Dave: those are great points. Thanks for commenting. - SF

Comment on Day 10,936 by: Clair

Wed, 07 Dec 2005 13:38:00 +0000

Random thoughts before I have to actually wake up…

One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter!

When you leave this country, what rights do you have? Not saying I think we shouldn’t give others the same ‘inalienable’ rights as our own citizens.

I wish everyone would be able to leave everyone else alone. I guess that puts me in the idealist category. However, I think that is never going to happen - the leaving everyone else alone, not the putting me in the idealist category. So, let’s torture them all by making them eat my cooking!